Below is the text of the USA ARMENIAN LIFE TV program of April, 12 2024 With Investigative journalists: Appo Jabarian and Vosgan Mekhitarian
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APPO JABARIAN: Good evening, dear viewers, my interlocutor today is Mr. Vosgan Mekhitarian, a well-known public speaker and investigative journalist.
In the past few days, quite interesting developments took place in the domestic political life of Armenia as well as on the international level, which can have existential impact on the Republic of Armenia. I personally agree with the alarm-sounding by Mr. Gurgen Simonyan, a political commentator and a candidate for a doctoral in Political Science, who describes the situation related to Armenia today as ‘alarming’ on regional and international levels.
It is true that the European Union, the United States of America, and the leadership of Armenia held a very important tripartite historic meeting on April 5, but it did not mean that, as Prime Minister Pashinyan said during his speech in the Parliament, “In our relationship with all of Armenia’s allies, we should not be expecting all the hard work to be carried out by external forces or the new allied states. We are obliged to fully fulfill our home work and not let the Sovereignty, Independence and Defense of the Armenian State be sabotaged in any way.”
And fortunately for the Republic of Armenia and the entire Armenian Nation, it seems that the public attitude towards vigilance and preparedness among the Homeland and Diaspora Armenians has started to become more serious, because a danger may explode at any time, be it in the form of a full-scale war — military aggression by Azerbaijan, or in the form of October 27, 1999 wholesale assassination of the leadership of the Armenian state.
Therefore, on this occasion, it should be said that on the home front, it is very commendable that there are alert-minded deputies in the National Assembly of Armenia. MP Vahagn Aleksanian raised very important concerns and, among them Karekin II Catholicos of All Armenians ‘inappropriate’ behavior. In light of these (political) encroachments by the Apostolic Church clerics, it must be said that it is really encouraging that the internal political actors of Armenia have started to raise the alarm on the danger that is coming alas from the Mother See of St. Etchmiadzin. If we were in a free world, such a danger would have been curtailed in favor of the Armenian statehood. Traditionally, we should expect that the Armenian Apostolic Church should be an asset for rather than a liability to the Armenian statehood.
Let’s watch together Mr. Aleksanian’s speech about Karekin II the pseudo- Catholicos and his cronies. Then continue our discussion.
Member of Parliament VAHAGN ALEKSANIAN: For several days now, we have been seeing rapid developments in the spiritual circles, one might say. Because the other day the Mother See spread fake news that “the authorities of the Republic of Armenia are preparing to hand over territories from the Tavush region,” as it was an obvious false news and obviously with their words, the Mother See has violated one of God’s commandments: “DO NOT LIE.” But what is more important here, when I responded to it, I mentioned that fake news is being spread by the Mother See, which is not actually true, and as a faithful, I feel very bad about it. And all of us, as Faithful, should do so, so that the Mother See stops this practice, which actually forces the Faithful to be alienated from the Armenian Apostolic Church because of their misbehavior, which is a great pain for me as Faithful.
To be honest, during my life, I always saw that the Mother See talked about everything except its ecclesiastical issues. For example, will the Mother See talk about such things as celibacy priesthood one day? Or they rather jump around intermittently talking about political issues, or military issues, or just spread fake news?
One does not know whether the Mother See’s official website is an opposition daily full of fake news or (a site of a spiritual leadership). What does it mean to spread fake news that the Republic of Armenia is handing over territories from Tavush region? Someone should ask Mother See, “Respectable Mother See, those territories of Tavush Region that you mention as Kherimli, Kizilhajili — are they part of the territory of Tavush Region? Are those lands integral parts of administrative land districts?” … But coming back to what I said before, I must mention once again that I think the Mother See would be good to speak about church issues.
JOURNALIST: If the country is in danger, shouldn’t the Mother See talk about it, Mr. Aleksanian? Shouldn’t we be worried about the borders of Armenia proper?
Member of Parliament VAHAGN ALEKSANIAN: Of course, of course. Of course, the Mother See must speak when the country is in danger. However, when the Mother See spreads false news when the country is in danger, I think it is generally to Armenia’s detriment — it does not help to neutralize the dangers. But on the contrary, it contributes to the augmentation of these dangers. I have great respect for the Apostolic Church, but I think that the Mother See in its way of working, is generally trying to achieve a complete change of attitude of the Armenian nation towards the Armenian Apostolic Church, which, in my opinion, we, the Faithful should not allow.
APPO JABARIAN: As we have seen in these videos, some rumors are being spread by high-ranking, so to speak, uneducated spiritual leaders of the church. They are actually participating in the disinformation campaign, the tip of which goes all the way to Kremlin — Putin’s Russia. We have to raise a very important question here. I will certainly ask my interlocutor, Mr. Mekhitarian: What can be done so that in Armenia, similar to the free world? In case of the Faithful in Armenia, who are also citizens of Armenia, the Armenia state is obligated to defend their civil right. What kind of road map can be developed, so that the Armenian Apostolic Church is freed from Karekin II’s autocratic system, and is transferred back to the Armenian people – the rightful governors of the Church?
VOSGAN MEKHITARIAN: Mr. Jabarian, the diagnosis is accurate. There is no person in the Armenian society who is unaware of the state of the Armenian Apostolic Church today, particularly within the Mother See. As the saying goes, the fish stinks from the head. We all know from history that the Armenian Apostolic Church has played an important role in preserving our identity, and again in the course of history, always in the period when we had statehood, the people joined hands to preserve the church power next to the secular power.
Unfortunately, for long time, we have lost the statehood, and the leadership has been given to the church. Today, the church, should be the apostle of love. But it sows hatred among the people against the state. This is the issue.
We know very well where Theocracy has reached. But the time has come, dear ones, for the people to take back their role in the Church leadership; and for our church to even become a people-led church. We all know how many statutory violations there are. … Beloved, we must all work hand in hand, save the Armenian Apostolic Church and bring reform, so that it can work hand in hand with the government to bring the country back on its feet.
APPO JABARIAN: What is your proposal? What are the steps, Mr. Mekhitarian, that the people can take back the diocesan leadership of Tavush region, as well as in the free world and in present-day Armenia, various dioceses, in general all dioceses in the former Soviet space? The lay people have the right to participate in elections and have the right to depose the diocesan leader if need be.
In today’s Armenia, those systems have existed since the time of the old Soviet regime, the Catholicos of the day, which unfortunately is currently Karekin II, has turned the entire Armenian Apostolic Church into his personal domain. What is the road map that the Faithful in the dioceses in Armenia can follow to liberate themselves from the yoke of the Bolshevik-led Karabakh mafia and begin to act as they do in the free world, as healthy dioceses?
VOSGAN MEKHITARIAN: In order for our church, Mr. Jabarian, to become a Democracy, we must respect the By-Laws of our church. As you mentioned, totalitarianism continues to cloud the high leadership of our church. I wish he never took over, but ever since the Catholicos Karekin took over, Theocracy became rampant. Let’s give a simple example from within Armenia, there are no election within the dioceses. It is the Catholicos Karekin himself who unilaterally appoints a bishop or a priest as the primate of a diocese. A gross By-Laws violation.
The people must choose who will be their primate. It is not possible to expect the Catholicos to decide by himself. This means that the Catholicos has no respect for the By-Laws of the church and decides everything as he wants. That’s the reason why a crony of Karekin II the primate of Gyumri Diocese demands the resignation of the Pashinyan government that is elected by the people. The of Tavush Diocese, Bishop Galstanyan is doing the same thing. Had these primates been elected by the people they would have been held accountable by the people.
They are not being held accountable. This means … we must stand up and demand our rights, so that the Catholicos and his satellites’ dictatorial rule is eradicated.
APPO JABARIAN: It can be very clearly confirmed that the Armenian Apostolic Church has been recognized as agent of the 5th column in Armenia and the former Soviet space. In other words, Karekin II clan is a part of that treacherous internal group. And we have made clear statements in the past about the conditions under which the leaders of various religious, political and social organizations operating in the free world, operating in the Diaspora, as well as in the former Soviet Union, have become KGB agents — the same KGB whose agents today have turned into FSB agents of Putin’s Russia, who are complicit in every way to weaken the Sovereignty, Independence and Defense of the Armenian state. Therefore, on this occasion, we should highlight the fact that, as we have made statements in the past, the KGB has not only penetrated the Ramgavar Liberal Party (ADL) or the Social Democratic Hunchakian (SDHP) parties, but has also penetrated the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF). Let’s watch this video together and continue our conversation.
Member of Parliament VAHAGN ALEKSANIAN: With your permission, let me quote an excerpt from the book “Spymaster” by General Oleg Kalugin, the former head of the Foreign Intelligence Department of the Main Department of the KGB of the USSR: “the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) was a nationalist group that fought for the independence of Armenia. But over time we embedded so many agents in there that some of them were able to achieve high positions.
We managed to “neutralize” the group and it has not been fighting against the Soviet Union since the 1980’s. The entire organization and a number of their members were recruited by the KGB. Now the question, dear Dashnak/ARF’er friends, “Exactly, who are enlisted?” Please submit the list of those who have been recruited, so that I do not refer you all collectively again. Let me refer to the recruited ones.
APPO JABARIAN: As you have been informed, dear viewers, the member of the National Assembly of Armenia, Vahagn Aleksanian, made clear statements, and of course, this was not news, it simply applies to the entire Armenian nation and also to the supporters of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, of which a large number of members, rank-and-file members, former rank-and-file members, who every day began to sound the alarm during private meetings as to Why and How it happened that such important number of infiltrations were made into the structure of the ARF?
The time has come to call a spade a spade, so that our nation is healed and our political organizations, public organizations, as well as religious organizations, not only within Armenia, but also throughout the Diaspora, are returned to their rightful owners, the Armenian people. And we don’t want leaders of any public or religious organization to be recruited neither by the West or the East. The Armenian nation, has a birthright with Homeland and Diaspora people to be led by patriotic Armenians.
For this reason, it should be said that the countries fighting for Sovereignty, the countries of the former Soviet Union, should form a “buffer zone for Democracy” — a chain that starts from the Baltic countries to the South Caucasus. The “ Democracy Belt” should include the Scandinavian countries – Sweden, Finland, Norwegia, the Baltic states, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and the chain continues all the way to the South Caucasus to include Georgia and Armenia.
The positive developments that have taken place in recent days, enabling the Republic of Armenia to rapidly diversify its foreign alliances, not only in the military sense, but also in the economic sense, is highly commendable. It is also commendable that in contrast to the destructive outburst by Turkey, Azerbaijan and Russia trying in every possible way to block the process of integration of Yerevan and Tbilisi with the West, it must be said that it is very commendable that the Islamic Republic of Iran approaches in a very discreet manner and I would not be surprised if, one day, it is revealed that Iran is observing with a sense of subdued satisfaction the fact that eventually, through the integration of Armenia with the European Union, Iran will become an important factor along with India and other countries, in every possible way to support Armenia’s efforts to become energy-independent, economically diversified becoming a truly sovereign, independent, and more powerful in terms of defense.
Such works are of vital importance if the Armenian people of the whole world are serious about preserving and supporting the strengthening of Armenia’s Democracy, Sovereignty and Independence, because, if Armenia does not exercise its birthright to diversify its external alliances, then, as they say in Soviet Armenian lingo, Armenia will become a “gubernia” (a province) under Russian rule.
And if it becomes a “gubernia”, we will witness new “namestniks” (Russian: “governors”) like in the 1920s, when Soviet Armenian rulers, operating under the Russian umbrella, would not care about the task of maintaining or developing Armenian Sovereignty, Independence and Defense. The most important thing for them, especially the old Soviet gangs, the most important thing for them is to remain unpunished keeping their loot and to continue the looting spree of the Armenian nation.
VOSGAN MEKHITARIAN: Mr. Jabarian, on this occasion, I would like to remind the TV viewers of a very smart statement that the US Ambassador made in Yerevan, saying that although Armenia is taking steps towards the West these days, it should never forget not to burn all the bridges with Russia. Because the more diverse her ties with other countries are, the more democratic it will become and the more it will develop her statehood, therefore, let’s not focus only on the West, but as Mr. Jabarian also mentioned, let’s be friends with all those who want to reach out to us and respect our sovereignty. But let’s not forget one thing in all this, that we are a distinct entity as a state and we need to strengthen our defense capabilities, which will be immediately followed by a strong economic system, because we think it is smart to establish contact with all states.